pro-lifers = pro-forcers?…

more child-rape victims for anti-choicers to torment

But that’s the “pro-life” movement for you: People who have no moral qualms about forcing a 14-year-old rape victim to carry a pregnancy to term and give birth against her will. I would think that at some point, anti-choicers would take a good hard look at themselves and think, “You know, it takes a real asshole to force child rape victims to give birth when they are already emotionally devastated and physically injured and clearly do not want to be forced to have a baby.” But, nah.

This case does clarify a few things (and not just the utter lack of empathy that antichoicers feel towards women and girls). It shows how utterly hostile the anti-choice position is to basic ethical and moral considerations. They’re willing to stalk and harass child rape victims, break up families, and breach doctor-patient confidentiality with the intention of inflicting further emotional (and potentially physical) harm on their patients. They refuse to do the most basic referrals if they dislike a particular procedure, and they threaten all who disagree with them with excommunication (not to mention harassment and violence). They’re even willing to abuse the criminal and juvenile justice systems to further their ideology.

terrible.

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11 responses to “pro-lifers = pro-forcers?…

  1. Hello,

    What do you believe an unborn child is? I assume you would agree that it is a human being. No alternative has ever been offered. Why do you believe it is acceptable to kill an unborn human being?

    It’s terribly sad that this girl was raped. Do you think that killing her child will help her cope?

    Thanks,
    Bill

  2. my issue with this situation is only that these pro-lifers further victimized a rape victim by invading her medical privacy and threatening her personal rights.

    it should be pretty obvious that “killing an unborn human being” will not “help her cope”. it’s also pretty obvious that this situation is about personal rights. put differently: do you believe that children should be forced to have children?

    it’s pretty ingenious for you to conclude that other people “believe it is acceptable to kill an unborn human being” because it’s what you want to believe.

    try being raped and impregnated at 14 before you condemn any sympathizers.

  3. You seem very concerned with the rights of this child, which is commendable, and I share your concern, but I’m also concerned with the rights of the baby. It seems you are callous to the unborn child’s rights. Why is that?

    Yes, I believe that children should be forced to have children, as terrible as that situation is. You and I are forced not to kill people everyday. Why is it all right to kill an unborn child? You’re the one that posted this. I thought you might have some thoughts or at least a defense for why you are so anxious for this unborn child to be killed.

    Thanks,
    Bill

  4. who said i wanted an unborn child to be killed? who said i thought it was acceptable? you did. i didn’t say a word about killing any unborn child. fyi, i am rather opposed to the deplorable act, but i guess i can’t stop you from believing the assumptions that you create for yourself to believe.

  5. “Yes, I believe that children should be forced to have children”
    Someone should report you to Child Protective Services. There is something very very wrong with what you just said. Please, do not go near any children for their safety.

  6. Aquilolumen,

    Your writing is not overly clear, but you have to admit that you’re putting off a pro-choice vibe. If nothing else, it’s amply clear to me that you’re in favor of allowing this girl to kill her baby, right?

    I’ll just leave these questions as rhetorical questions, since it seems you’re not in favor of having a discussion. Do you believe the child of a rapist is less human than another child? Is it deplorable to abort a child that is loved, but not deplorable to abort a child that is inconvenient? Isn’t the most beautiful love the kind that is sacrificial?

    A mother and father who want a baby don’t have much trouble loving their baby. Real love is shown when people commit to raising or adopting out a child that is not healthy or wanted. The ultimate act of selfishness is murdering a baby for the sake of convenience. I think it will do this poor girl much more harm to murder her baby than give birth and adopt him or her out.

    Thanks for your time.
    Bill

  7. Bill,
    I’ll start from the beginning, and will try to be as blunt and polite as I could.
    First and foremost, I do not agree with your stance that the 14 year old female should create a progeny.
    Now we have that out of the way, I will point out some fallacies you that are generally stumbled upon.
    “You seem very concerned with the rights of this child, which is commendable, and I share your concern, but I’m also concerned with the rights of the baby. It seems you are callous to the unborn child’s rights. Why is that?”
    You seem to be more concerned about the baby, or in actuality, it is a clump of cell that has the potential to be human, it is not self aware yet. That is why it is given the term “Fetus”.
    See: Fetus (Encarta.com) term applied to an animal embryo after a definite period has elapsed following conception. In human reproduction, for example, the period is eight weeks; for early embryonic development.
    The fetus is a clump of cells not aware of what is happening amongst the warm all encompassing sack. Whereas the female is attacked by those who want to assert their own person opinions in order to satisfy themselves, not worrying about the mother, but rather what is a static object with the potential to be a human.
    “Yes, I believe that children should be forced to have children, as terrible as that situation is. You and I are forced not to kill people everyday. Why is it all right to kill an unborn child? You’re the one that posted this. I thought you might have some thoughts or at least a defense for why you are so anxious for this unborn child to be killed.”
    The 14 year old is NOT forced to, she rather wants to, look at the definition of fetus above, we humans do kill millions every day, in the form of animals. Link this: if a mammal, human or animal, has the experience of a fetus dying, would you call that suicide?
    Thoughts or defense: a human or an animal should have full control of whatever is inside of them, if bacteria gets inside of a human, the bacteria “raped you” and reproduced inside of you, would you want to give birth to the bacteria, or would you want to eliminate it? Scientifically speaking, an unborn child could possibility be classified as a parasite – it drams the host of its nutrients and possibly harming them in return. Just as a mother can have the option of giving birth to a child and dying during the process, the mother has the option of not giving birth.
    “Your writing is not overly clear, but you have to admit that you’re putting off a pro-choice vibe.”
    – The writing is indeed quite crystal clear, and I do believe that you are determined in voicing your rejection to pro-choice. Where as the writer here is tempting to suggest the outrageousness of how swarms of people are trying to manipulate someone of their own just because they themselves believe in something.
    If nothing else, it’s amply clear to me that you’re in favor of allowing this girl to kill her baby, right?
    – Yes. You kill things inside of you; you’ve killed insets with babies in them.
    I’ll just leave these questions as rhetorical questions, since it seems you’re not in favor of having a discussion. Do you believe the child of a rapist is less human than another child? Is it deplorable to abort a child that is loved, but not deplorable to abort a child that is inconvenient? Isn’t the most beautiful love the kind that is sacrificial?
    Do you believe the child of a rapist is less human than another child? No.
    “Is it deplorable to abort a child that is loved? Besides it’s a fetus at this stage, most people who love their own child have it through a pleasure experience that is not forced upon them. How many forced kids do 14 year olds have in the northern hemisphere?”
    But not deplorable to abort a child that is inconvenient? It’s not just inconvenient; it is harmful to the child “Hey CHILD’SNAME”, you were an accident, in addiction, your biological father is a child rapper, and your mom was forced to have you because of other people.”
    Isn’t the most beautiful love the kind that is sacrificial? That is your opinion.
    A mother and father who want a baby don’t have much trouble loving their baby. Real love is shown when people commit to raising or adopting out a child that is not healthy or wanted. The ultimate act of selfishness is murdering a baby for the sake of convenience. I think it will do this poor girl much more harm to murder her baby than give birth and adopt him or her out.
    You can also say the ultimate act of selflessness is rapping a child, making her to have a baby, and since that baby is unwanted and inconvenient, someone will adopt and love it. Ergo, that person has created a child that will be well taken care of and loved in a foster home.
    Look at the facts: How many kids are in foster homes? How many do not get a home?

  8. bill — i see that you are focused primarily on the survival of the fetus rather than the abuse of a child’s basic rights. very well.

    what would happen if the fetus survives? personally, i worry about the quality of life that s/he might have. s/he might have to endure the tainted love of his/her mother and/or caretakers. s/he could be shuffled through orphanages and foster homes, and these are places physical, sexual, and emotional abuse are commonplace. s/he may very well have a whole host of self-esteem and self-worth issues that come with the knowledge of being the child of a rapist. social stigma and so forth would exacerbate an already dark and lonely life.

    if the child attempts to commit suicide… then it would be pretty obvious what path the child chose for itself. it is irresponsible to dump a child in a world where it is not guaranteed love and security. it is inhumane to put a human being through the pain of its own existence by forcing him/her to live.

    in our era where overpopulation is an inexorable issue, perhaps the best plan that ensures the survival of the human race excludes the survival of every human being ever conceived. harsh, but if i were fetus, i would rather prolong the survival of my progenitors than add to the strain of a struggling world. i would rather choose death over a life of abandonment and bitter loneliness.

    if i were faced with the prospect of having an unwanted baby, i would prefer a course of action that results in the birth of the child. i know you think that am “anxious for this unborn human being to be killed”, but the thought of murder disturbs me (believe it or not).

    the fact remains that this girl is so young, and she has a right to be concerned about her physical health. children could die by having babies — grown women have died through the same process. (granted, there are cultures that force children to have children, but i don’t condone this deplorable practice). the girl should be allowed to translate a safety concern into a medical decision. she should also receive counseling about the moral consequences of aborting a baby (but it looks like she was force-fed the message, anyway). in the end, this difficult decision lies with her. this is her life, not yours. this her body, and her body is her responsibility. it is not the property of an emotionally driven crowd. if the fetus is in her body, then it is a part of her. the child is then her burden to bear, dead or alive. if she must suffer the consequences of her actions, then so be it.

    all in all, you seem to be unreasonably concerned for an unborn fetus on the other side of the world, conceived by people totally unrelated to you, and that you yourself do not take responsibility for. your concern is a noble one, but impractical and irresponsible to the parties concerned.

    kids across the world are victimized on a regular basis. their fundamental rights are in a fragile state. you yourself believe that “children should be forced to have children”. let us curb existing crimes committed against them before we add more to the list — and before we introduce new children to a world where their protections are threatened and abused in this way.

  9. Hello,

    There are some huge differences in the basic assumptions we are making.

    My assumptions:
    1. A baby is a human at conception.
    2. A fetus is a human being. It is not some other species.
    3. These humans have the same rights as every other child.
    4. Human life is superior to animal life.
    5. Abortion is killing an innocent human being.
    6. Killing an innocent human being is murder.
    7. Murder is a sin against an infinitely holy God.
    8. Murderers will have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8).

    While we haven’t discussed some of those points, no one (not just you guys, but no one anywhere) has refuted the basis of pro-life thought which is the first 3.

    I’m in favor of killing non-human life when it serves humans to do so, such as for food or for treating disease. When you prove me wrong on those 3 points, I will gladly join your side. Until then, I would urge you to think long and hard about how passionate you seem about murder.

    Proverbs 8:36 says, “..all who hate me [God] love death.”

    Thanks,
    Bill

  10. ah, well, there we go. i’m vegetarian. i guess i murder vegetables and grain with a passion.

    no, really.

    i see that you believe that life begins of conception this is a definition that i could agree with. “the basis of pro-life thought”, however, can be dealt with differently based on your definition of “human”. if “human” is defined as “human species”, then okay, we can’t deny that all humans ought to have equal rights, which in reality we obviously don’t. women historically have had substantially fewer rights than men: control over their own bodies, which is the basis of pro-choice thought, is a basic right that men usually don’t worry about and, in fact, typically transgress upon women. if you mean “human” as in created in the image of god, or with a conscience or a heart or a brain or the ability to reason and so forth, your warrant is not very solid. i’m assuming you mean “human” as in “human species”, which is a rational ground

    i don’t find abortion to be acceptable, despite what you’ve concluded for yourself to believe. as i’ve previously stated, i prefer a course of action that results in the birth of the baby. however, i understand that abortion is sometimes necessary, just as you think slaughtering millions of animals on a daily basis is necessary if it serves our own selfish consumption. label me a ‘passionate murderer’ if i empathize with such necessities. i’d call “killing non-human life when it serves humans to do so, such as for food or for treating disease” a passion for murder as well. i disagree that human life is superior to animal life, so neither case is fair nor acceptable to me. i think you would agree, however, that we humans have always done things that we find are necessary but unacceptable, such as kill other members of our own species just because they don’t believe in our particular beliefs and dogmas, as we justify it away according to our particular beliefs and dogmas.

    yeah, i agree with you that all human beings, fetuses included, should have equal rights, but the chances are that whatever baby you’re fighting for won’t have the same rights either. people who have more power tend to have more rights. this starts with being an adult male, like yourself, and rolling down to a freshly-conceived fetus. should a female fetus have all the rights of an adult male? i think so. does it? no. yes, it is reasonable to want to this for every child, but it is unrealistic and currently unfeasible. until then, the utopic rights that you describe for the fetus are severely limited.

    life is not fair, and i’m sorry, but it sucks to be the aborted fetus. it also sucks to be the woman or girl who was raped, then harassed by people who fight for but don’t take responsibility for her baby nor her health, and is still required to deal with the aftermath of the pregnancy, regardless of whether or not she had an abortion. since a fetus, up until a certain age, is unable to survive outside of the mother’s body (note: with our current state of technology), then its survival depends on the creature keeping it alive. if a mother kills her unborn baby — what is essentially a parasite living off of her body — then it really sucks to be the baby. if we kill a cow simply because we enjoy the taste and nutrition that it provides, then it sucks to be the cow who was anally electrocuted and shot through the forehead assembly-line style. construe the first case as a passion for murder and the second as a favorable practice, if you wish, but we as a human species are not that wonderful. maybe in the future, in a better time, when zygotes can be rescued and raised outside of the mother’s body, then all people — great and small, male or female — shall have an equal shot at life.

    for now, it is my opinion that humanity is in a state of progress (that is until we nuke each other out). we are imperfect and brutish. we are still familiar with the notion of ‘kill or be killed’, and the ‘law of the jungle’. call me bloodthirsty, as you probably will, but this is what i perceive reality to be — just take your eyes off the bible and look the news. the horrible shitstorms that happen every day are unacceptable, and so is killing a baby, but this shit happens anyway because the people in power lord over those who have none. i am of the opinion that none of it is acceptable. if this is your idea of hell, then i’ll be the first to say, “welcome to planet earth”.

    p.s. and please don’t tell me that a woman’s life is inferior to a man’s life. otherwise, i thank you in return for the conversation.

  11. Hi Bill,

    A baby is a human at conception–
    Science proves otherwise: it is a fertilized egg, one CELL, stem cell.

    A fetus is a human being. It is not some other species.–
    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus
    “A fetus (or foetus or fœtus) is a developing mammal or other viviparous vertebrate, after the embryonic stage and before birth.”

    These humans have the same rights as every other child.–
    It’s a FERTILIZED EGG. Think of it as: pollen enters a plant.

    Abortion is the killing an innocent human being.
    — It’s killing one or more CELLS.

    Killing an innocent human being is murder.
    -Indeed it is.

    Murder is a sin against an infinitely holy God.
    -Killing an animal is murder as well.

    Murderers will have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8).
    -Never read the bible.

    Thanks

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